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Undercurrents is a regular podcast series featuring interviews with Chatham House experts - and others - about the critical underlying issues which are shaping modern society. Hosted by staff from across the institute, each episode goes in-depth on a topic, looking beyond the news to explore the issues shaping global politics.

Chatham House is an independent policy institute based in London. Our mission is to help build a sustainably secure, prosperous and just world.

Jan 14, 2022

The twin crises of COVID-19 and climate change have exposed weaknesses in the institutions and diplomatic relationships designed to support global governance. In a new series of articles for Chatham House, author and journalist John Kampfner has been exploring how competition between the United States and China has exacerbated these faultlines. In his final piece, John assesses the relative soft power of the two states, and argues that the era of rivalry has tarnished both the American and Chinese brands, with many countries around the world growing wary of choosing allegiances.

In this episode, Ben and John discuss the US-China strategic rivalry with Francis Fukuyama, the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University's Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies (FSI), and Hongying Wang, Associate Professor of Political Science at the University of Waterloo and Senior Research Fellow at CIGI. 

Read the article:

Big power rivalry: Who is winning the popularity wars?


Speakers: Francis Fukuyama, John Kampfner, Hongying Wang

Host: Ben Horton

Editor: Jamie Reed Sound Services

Recorded and produced by Chatham House.